Change for the World -- Discussions in the Dark

[gracie_musica]

Title: Discussions in the Dark
dwtwprompts prompt: Young
Count the Ways prompt: Plants
Date Written: 7/1/08
Rating: PG-13/T
Word Count: 997
Fandom: Doctor Who/Torchwood
Characters/Pairings: Jack/Ianto
Spoilers: Torchwood Season 1 & 2, Doctor Who Season 03
Warnings: M-preg, angst, adult themes
Author's Notes: So, uh, yeah. Again. Set a few days after the last chapter, a week at most. Another a/n after the fic, too, please read it before posting.

Previous chapters found here.


"I was married once."

Ianto looked up at Jack, an arm around the immortal's waist. Jack was staring up at the ceiling of the TARDIS, his eyes back in the past.

"Her name was Lily," the Captain continued. "She was Torchwood." He ran the hand around Ianto's body up and down his spine as he remembered. "You would have liked her."

Ianto knew. He'd read the personnel files, seen the wedding photos and the marriage license. Seen her death certificate, signed by Jack himself. "What was she like?"

"Gentle." His hand flattened out along the small of Ianto's bare back, staying steady. "Caring. Kind." He grinned a little. "She thought she could change me, change the world, the universe." He finally turned to meet Ianto's eyes. "More Companion material, I'd say. You and the Doctor, you're both drawn to kind, more peaceful people."

Ianto chuckled softly, moving his hand over Jack's heart. "You're fighting to make and keep everything peaceful, that's why we all adore you. Sometimes you have to take up arms to make the universe a better place."

Jack grinned and leaned in to kiss Ianto's forehead before settling back against the pillows. "We had a son in our second year of marriage. Still newlyweds." He smiled, his eyes going back up to the ceiling. "He was so beautiful, just like his mother. My smile though, made the whole room light up when he laughed."

Ianto knew what was coming next. "What happened to them?"

"He was taken hostage by hostile aliens during a mission. Six years old." Jack shifted a little, pulling Ianto closer into him. "Lily killed herself three days after we buried him."

Ianto nodded, wrapping his arm tighter around Jack and tucking his head up underneath the immortal's chin. Lily and Edward Harkness, the only two people in the morgue who shared a crypt.

"We had a child then because she was mortal," Jack said after a few moments of silence, his voice shaky. "But neither of us had even stopped to consider the ramifications, our job. I mean, traveling with the Doctor is only marginally safer, and that's because we'll lock you in a room and never let you out again."

Ianto nodded. "I've been thinking about that too." He pulled back to look down at Jack. "That, our jobs, but also how long have we been together -- not even a year? I know no one's ever ready for a child, not really, but I don't think we are. Individually or as a couple. Babies can put a strain on the best of relationships. We're still getting to know each other, testing each other's boundaries. And I know that it's rather selfish on my part, but I want some time alone with just you. I do want a baby -- your baby -- but I don't know if now's the right time for either of us."

Jack nodded as well. "So it's decided then."

"Yeah." Ianto laid back down in the circle of Jack's arms. "Part of being a responsible parent is knowing when the right time to become one is."

Jack made a noise of agreement. "Didn't expect it to hurt so much."

"Neither did I," Ianto said softly, rubbing his shoulder.

The two of them laid together in silence before Jack broke the quiet again. "How are we going to do this? I mean, is there a procedure or something?"

Ianto kissed the underside of the immortal's jaw. "Do you know anything about the ancient Greek city of Cyrene?"

"A little," Jack admitted before grinning. "I was more a Roman era man myself."

The young Time Lord laughed. "Not surprising. Cyrene was well known for its export of Silphium. Silphium was so important that the ancient Egyptians actually had a glyph specific for the plant."

"What was it?"

"It was a contraceptive and an abortifacient, induced labor early to cause a miscarriage," Ianto explained. "It had other medical properties too, but those were the most widely associated with it. There used to be a plant on Gallifrey that was like a Silphium."

"Ianto, not to be rude but... Gallifrey's gone," Jack reminded his lover.

"The TARDIS has a greenhouse," Ianto replied. He grinned at Jack's shocked look. "I'm surprised you never found it. It has plant samples from planets the Doctor has visited, but most of them are plants from Gallifrey." The younger man ran a hand down Jack's chest and stomach. "I'll go fetch some when Great-grandfather goes to sleep."

"We'll go," Jack corrected. "We both decided. We're doing this together."

Ianto pulled back to look at him before giving a soft smile and nodding. "We'll go," he agreed.

-----

"Are you going to regret this?" Jack asked as he set the plate in front of Ianto.

The Doctor was asleep. He and Ianto had snuck past his bedroom and into the greenhouse with a sketchbook of the old Gallifreyan plants. Locating the plant had been surprisingly easy -- it apparently grew like a weed, springing up wherever it could. There was so much of it that the Doctor would never even miss it.

They'd decided to mix it in with food to go down easier, and had gone to the kitchen. Jack had cooked a simple pasta, while Ianto sat at the table. Neither of them had spoken until Jack broke the silence.

"Please, Ianto, don't do something you think is just what I want."

The younger man stared at the plate for a long minute. Here it was. D-day. Jack sat next to him, taking Ianto's left hand into his own.

"I do want to have our child," Ianto said finally, looking over at him. "But I can wait for what I want."

Jack squeezed his hand and leaned in to kiss him. There was still affection in the kiss, a hint of regret, but they'd be okay. "You'll have it one day. I promise."

Ianto smiled and reached for his fork.

-----

A/N 2.0: *sigh* Okay. Let me explain. No there is too much, let me sum up.

I realize I have probably pissed off most of you doing this fic. I realize that I have probably alienated over half of my reading audience by doing this fic. I realize that this is a hot-button topic, and I've opened myself up for a lot of grief by doing this fic.

I did NOT MEAN FOR THIS TO HAPPEN THIS WAY. Honest truth. I was going through my head at part three, thinking of names, of how many coin flips I'd have to do to figure out if they were getting a girl or a boy, researching names that were not Rose or John or Gareth, figuring out what trauma I'd have them go through, maybe make Ianto's c-section trigger a regeneration so Jack had to spend 48 hours with a newborn and a passed-out partner. And an overprotective Doctor. But the muses grabbed me and dragged me about the other way. Crazy non-beings, doing what they want!

I didn't write this as some sort of 'statement'. Yes, I'm not planning on any children of my own, but I'm not some militant going around giving forced abortions. I know a few of my readers have kids. It's a personal choice. Something right for one person isn't right for the person sitting next to you on the bus.

There's one more chapter after this. I promise to redeem myself, but if you stop reading I won't get mad. I was a little hesitant to post this, because I KNOW it's going to cause issues.

So let's have it. Honest opinion on a hot-button topic. One rule though -- no going after each other in the comments. I'm up for free game, but if somebody starts a flamewar on my LJ, I'm gonna be one unhappy authoress, and that means no more fic (for those of you who still want to read me, that is)! Keep an open mind, that's all I ask.

Comments

[rhianona]

Brava. You have my respect for writing and posting this and not forcing it into something else. You have done a wonderful job of showing the thought processes of Jack and Ianto in this. It feels very real, very realistic and true to them given how unenthusiastic both of them have been towards the pregnancy. Their decision makes sense given where they are in their relationship and what they do day in and day out.

Cheers kiddo!

[bookwrm89.livejournal.com]

I like that they sat down and talked their way through this and made a decision together. If they aren't ready, they aren't ready and I'm glad you wrote it like you felt it needed to be written.
Can't wait for the next chapter...and any further fics that are percolating in that brain of yours!
*hugs*

[teachwriteslash.livejournal.com]

Hi love! I feel like I got you into this and I hope you don't hate me for it.

I am probably going to be rubbish at saying what I am trying to but part of being writers is that we don't shy away from issues like this.

You are very brave to go with this. I've tried to fight the muses. You can, but you lose something in the process.

Despite the setting and the whole sci fi aspect, what you create here is very, very real. Its never an easy decision to have or not to have a child.

The one issue I have in the whole thing is this "There's one more chapter after this. I promise to redeem myself."

Honey, there is nothing to redeem. In the end, this series is about Jack and Ianto loving each other. Throughout this they are respectful of feelings and of each other. That's your story and you are telling it very, very well.

[asioleh.livejournal.com]

I like yours stories and I plan to keep reading it, but I have to confess that I couldn´t finished reading this one. I love mpreg and although I hate when the child dies in a fic or the pearson has a miscare I still read it to the end, but to have someone do an abortion I just can´t accept it.

[piplover.livejournal.com]

I think you did a wonderful job on this, and although it is a sensitive issue, I think you presented it in a realistic way with both characters making a difficult decision. I have no kids, cannot have kids, but that doesn't mean I don't want to adopt some day. However, part of being a grown up, and as your Ianto said, part of being a parent, is knowing when the proper time for such a thing is right. Thank you for being brave enough to post this, and know that at least this reader will continue to look forward to whatever you come up with.

[sf4aw.livejournal.com]

You have nothing to apologize for. It is very brave of you to take your story in this direction. Sometimes life hands you difficult things to deal with and it is perfectly all right for fiction to reflect that. Its not the usual mpreg happy ending with angst in between but I'm engrossed by the story none the less. Keep following your muse.

I've also remained child-free and happy with my choice. Luckily I've not had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy and I've reached that age were I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[umbralillium.livejournal.com]

I'm actually kinda glad you went this way. Not many authors have the...courage to have Jack and Ianto say no to this kind of accident. Ianto's right, though, they need more time to get to know each other. Bravo! You will definitely not be losing me as a reader, even if I don't comment very often. Bad Dani! ^__~

[shara50.livejournal.com]

You did a good job in this story. You handled it right it was not a rash decision on either of their parts. Looking forward to the next part.

[legal-padawan.livejournal.com]

You did very well with this issue and this chapter. The men sat down, discussed it rationally, and made a decision. They didn't just rush headlong into either decision. They examined both sides of the issue and made a very responsible decision.

Not an easy decision, but a responsible one.

I enjoy mpreg fics (which was a surprise to me at first, believe you me) and I love seeing Ianto and Jack interact with children. Sometimes, though, it seems written for the sheer novelty of having the characters be parents rather than having them make the conscious choice of having children after spending time developing their relationship.

Lord, I hope all that made sense...

Anyhow, TL,DR version: very well written, I love your fic, and please don't stop writing!

[saharafic.livejournal.com]

Brava indeed! There has been quite the string of mpreg lately, and while I love it, it was refreshing to see another side. The discussions leading up were realistic, responsible and were treated with the gravitas the topic deserved.

I have to admit, I really expected a last minute "I cant do it" moment, and was pleasantly surprised there wasnt one.

I have adored everything you have written, and think you have earned your balls of steel for putting this out there. Well done, you!

[zen_raven.livejournal.com]

The only part I'd chastise you for is saying there's only one more chapter! Surely you tease us. Right?

(As for the hot button, I'm childfree and generally appalled that most people put more thought into adopting a dog than having a kid. So yay for respectful and loving family decisions!)

[autiger23.livejournal.com]

It's all good. It totally made me nearly cry, but I think it's because I'm having some hormonal issues. Heh! Hey, I have a question (uh, not necessarily just for you, but for the fandom world in general)- how come we have mpreg stories, but the dirty bastards like Jack (and your Ianto) can have kids and all but don't have to go through living hell 5-7 days a month EVERY MONTH for their ENTIRE ADULT LIVES. I think there should be mcramp fic. :D

Oh, and while I decided a long time ago that my choice would always be to have any kidlet conceived, whether that means adopting it out to a family that was ready (which would have been a bit tough for Ianto and Jack in this what with that whole Time Lord thing- heh!) or whatever, but my choice isn't necessarily someone else's choice. Just wanted to toss the adoption angle out there because I hadn't seen any comments up-thread talking about that.

But seriously, the only way I'd stop reading what you write is if you killed some puppies. And hell, even then I'd probably just boycott you for a couple months. :) Great job on this and all your other awesome stories.

[jerbearthompson.livejournal.com]

I personally think it's brilliant. You wrote out the characters very carefully and the emotion was just where it needed to be.
I think there are a few too many fics out there with Jack and Ianto head over heels in love and stumbling into parenthood. It was nice to have a change.
I think you stayed true to the characters and emotion while still managing to keep up with that little bit of fluff. :)
Again, I think it was brilliant and I take my hat off to you!

[sgcgirl52.livejournal.com]

I think this was an amazing fic. Like the others above, I think you were very brave in posting this (even if you don't think you were). It really does show the adult decisons and thought processes of Jack and Ianto in a way that was so real that I couldn't find fault in their choice.
I really liked the part about Jack having a child before and that insight making his knee-jerk reaction in the last part make more sense.

I'm really glad you wrote something like this because it took a boardering on cliche topic and gave it a spin that made it so real and opens up the question of what two people would do in that situation.


I'm not making much sense and will probably come back later and try again....its just been a very LONG day....I just wanted to thank you for writing a fic like this. Not every author would or even could write this topic and do it so well. So...Thanks.


~*~Temma~*~

[keeperofdestiny.livejournal.com]

Im looking forward to seeing how the Doctor reacts =D

And after reading Jack's story, Im kinda glad theyre giving up the baby. The Tardis and Torchwood are really no place for a child, so even if they did have a baby Id rather them give it up or give up Torchwood...

Poor Jack though, loosing his child and his wife in such a short space of time. At least this time around his thinking ahead, and both he and Ianto are considering where they are in life and how their lifestyles would effect their child before going through with it.

Im sure theyll have a happy family some time in the future though, maybe after Torchwood. ^-^

[lirulien.livejournal.com]

I wanted them to have the baby in the last chapter because I got the feeling that Ianto really wanted the baby but would give it up (not quite willingly) because Jack asked. But as I see now in this chapter, they both agree that it is not the time and both decide not to have the baby. I don't have a problem with that. And I think my reason for wanting them to have the baby holds true for many who are reading this fic(aside from wanting more Janto-with-kid fics).

I support giving people the choice to terminate unwanted pregnancy. Technically, if not for abortion, I wouldn't be here because my mom was pregnant once before me. So no problem at all, and I'll follow your fics all the way, don't worry! *pet*

[cazmalfoy.livejournal.com]

*takes hat off to you*

It takes some guts to post a story like this, knowing that there are going to be some people who don't like where you're going.

Personally I like to think of something like this happening to the boys as a character building excercise - both for Jack and Ianto. It's needed for the purpose of making them more 3d than 2d. Real people choose to do this everyday and have the same thoughts they're having, why can't two characters in a Sci-Fi genre feel the same way?

I'm looking forward to more - I know I don't comment as often as I should - but I'm reading every one.

xx

[merucha.livejournal.com]

Brava!!! It may not have been what people wanted --although from the comments you have many supporters -- but it is honest and well thought-out. And the fact that they chose TOGETHER what to do is important. I would have hated it if it had devolved into recriminations and nastiness.

As someone said up-thread, you have nothing to apologize for.

[charlie-jae.livejournal.com]

Wow... not many people are brave enough to even try and touch this subject. Hats off to yah for posting.

That said I think I honestly felt my stomach drop, and heart break at their decision. I look forward to seeing how you work things out.

More please!

[katestamps.livejournal.com]

Beautifully done. Painful, sad and yet so very realistic to see the two of them making a choice - TOGETHER - to end the pregnancy. I love the fact that it was THEIR choice, discussed and decided jointly, taking all the risks into account. I hurt for Jack and that history added so much both to the pain of the decision and the reality of the situation. Torchwood isn't for children, and retconning each other into forgetting it all isn't exactly practical or even possible. (Which makes me wonder if retcon is safe for pregnant women. *slaps the bunny* Go away!!)

I don't see any need to apologize here. Characters make their own choices, and often we know we're listening correctly when it feels like a punch in the gut.

[lemiserabelle.livejournal.com]

I think you handled this in a very tactful way. The only thing I'm worried about is how the Doctor will react!

[adafrog.livejournal.com]

Oh boys. Makes me sad and disappointed, but I understand.

Fake_is_love

[(Anonymous)]

Well I cant't be mad at you because its what they wanted. And i have to agree with a comment you put up there prochoice which I can't even say in my house. So I'm gald how they talked it out in this chapter and didn't have the common 'I"M KEEPING IT WITHOUT' line and all that. So I will keep on reading your stories....and you and totally4ryo are making into a HUGE Doctor Who and Torchwood fangirl....my friends are scared and one is made that i got her boyfriend into the Doctor and that we talk about it for hours. So any who back to this chapter they are a couple who are still getting to know one another and who ever says this is wrong....I send my killer bunnies cause they should keep reading and let people make thier own choices. (Even through the muses made you do it)

[travellingone.livejournal.com]

It worked beautifully. Nicely done.

[lambsendbeds.livejournal.com]

Wow. I can't say I'm not immensely sad at this turn of events. I was really tickled that it was Ianto who was up the duff and not Jack as is usual. Last chapter I thought that Ianto really wanted it but in this Chapter he gave it so much thought and the two of them talked it out and decided together that I can't question their decision-and it was theirs,not yours so don't apologise(although you had so many great ideas in your Note that I would love for you to revisit this after the time is right and the boys are ready and do it properly). I'm not mad at you and I'm sorry you're only planning one more chapter of this. I will keep reading your fic-don't you have a couple of other WIPs you need to add to?